Today we have a special guest. Avalon is the author of the blog, Strip and Grow Rich. She left a comment a few weeks ago and after learning that she is a successful exotic dancer, I thought it would be interesting to get her thoughts and opinions on the topic of seduction, especially after my post – How Not to Pick Up Strippers. So without further ado, here is an interview with Avalon the Super Stripper.
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Savage: I’m not sure what you know about pick-up artists or the seduction community, however, it is a growing men’s culture which focuses on using the science of attraction and the art of seduction to bring beautiful women into their lives. What are your thoughts on men deliberately focusing on this strategy to attract women?
Avalon: I haven’t studied the pick up artist or the seduction community to be honest with you. I’ve been out of the dating game for 8 years. I’ve heard the term PUA and watched silly videos how great puas pick up drunk chicks at a bar. Overall, I don’t think it’s anything new, it’s just been re-packaged and marketed to a needy demographic that will gladly fork over 17.95 or however much it costs to learn the Great Secrets of Picking up Women!! I think it’s great that shy men are learning to come out of their shells. Just harness that energy for good, not for exploitation.
Savage: As a stripper it is essentially your job to seduce men; so what tactics, techniques, and attitudes do you use to go about this?
Avalon: Actually it is my job to sell lap dances. I gain rapport with them, and then ask if they want a dance. The seduction part doesn’t even start (with me) until the dance begins. At that point, I try to utilize all the senses: smelling warm (not fruity or candy like) feeling softly shaven and silky smooth skin, touching the legal erogenous zones (ears, nape, neck, clavicle), shoulder and temple massage for the stressed out business exec, hearing soft “mmmmmmssss” Most importantly I’m genuine. If a guy smells like a hoagie, I don’t tell him he smells good. If he needs to brush his teeth or apply deodorant…I maintain my12 inch rule. Most of the time, I find something I have in common with my clients and build on that. It’s a lot like a first get-to-know-you date…but better because we both know where it’s going.
Savage: It is often said in the seduction community that strippers are the female equivalent of pick up artists. Do you think that there are similarities between the two?
Avalon: I think the explicit differences are environment and personal motives.
Strippers use seduction tactics in an explicitly for-profit environment. Once patrons walk through that door they are in Fantasy land, they know that, we know that, it is generally understood that the strip club is not reality. It is a place for escapism. Guys don’t go to a strip club to find a girlfriend, they go for entertainment and to buy lap dances. Obviously strippers have a personal motive for employing seduction tactics: to make money to pay her bills! That’s obvious! When the lights come on, the role playing is over and we all go our separate ways. No harm no foul no false pretenses.
On the other hand, pick up artists use the tactics of seduction in “the real world” They use it at parties, at bars, at places where woman may have their guard down. Their motive is also for personal gain. Whether that is good or bad is alway going to depend on a case by case basis. PUAs looking for another notch on the bedpost versus shy guy overcoming his fear of rejection are two separate animals. Nevertheless, I’ll bet there are a lot more girls out there who got their feelings hurt by a PUA than there are guys who spent their life savings on a stripper.
Savage: You have a great quote on your MySpace Page – “The only thing women hate more than being viewed as a sexual object….is NOT being viewed as a sexual object.” Could you elaborate more this mind set and why it is important for men to understand?
Avalon: All women, as much as they may deny it, want to be the object of a man’s lust. Hence the reason women invest in makeup, plastic surgery, diets, etc. We want to be looked at….because if we’re not…that means we are in the same category as Hilary Clinton or Janet Reno….or Roseanne Barr….ugh….
Savage: One of the most recognized pick up artists, Mystery, is known for his ability to pick up exotic dancers in strip clubs. Some of his techniques for doing this are as follows:
- Have the attitude that you are there to just hang out
- Keep your money in your pocket and your hands off the talent
- Demonstrate much higher value, essentially show the stripper that you are the talent
- Use “Negs,” these are basically a backhanded compliment or a playful tease
- Avoid becoming a customer and focus on being someone that could show her a fun time outside of the club
- Convey that you are pre-qualified by mentioning that you’ve dated exotic dancers in the past
- Respect her and her job as a dancer
These are some of the basic tactics that Mystery and other pick-up artists use. How do you feel about this type of strategy and do you think it works for picking up strippers?
Avalon: I think it’s a great way to get ignored by a high earning stripper. I have to laugh at the “mention you’ve dated exotic dancers” that’s code word amongst us dancers as RUN! As fast as you can! Also anyone who tells me that he is just there to “hang out” is pre-qualified as a “time waster” 
Now, on a more serious note: this rule list groups strippers together as one personality type. Thats like saying I could make a list of ways to hit on doctors, which would be different from ways to hit on lawyers, which would be different from ways to hit on stock brokers. Most of the partier subsistence strippers I know…yes these might work. But the cool Super Stripper Chicks who have other jobs/businesses outside the club will see through this in a nanosecond. I would, and would then quickly move on to a paying customer. So this leads me to ask…are you trying to pick up ditzy subsistence stripper with a mountain of debt and nice shoes or cool super stripper with a college degree, rental properties, and fat brokerage account?
Savage: You admit that you met your husband when his boss bought him a lap dance, what was so unique about him rather than the other clients that made you want to pursue a relationship with him?
Avalon: He had Springsteen tickets and two dogs. I like Springsteen…and I also had two dogs. Unlike men, women know instantly if they’re going to go out with/sleep with you. I knew when I met him I wanted to see him again on a personal level. I knew on our first date I was going to marry him. Intuition is a gift that men will never have or understand. Which is why most of this PUA stuff isn’t about attracting attention from women, it’s about keeping their attention and gaining rapport with them AFTER you have their attention.
Savage: Finally, what advice would you give to the average guy for attracting women, not just strippers?
Avalon: Strippers are just women, so the advice is the same (just don’t waste our time practicing your tactics while we’re working)
Confidence is the key. Confidence is the single trait women desire in a man. Lack of confidence is a sign of weakness, and no woman wants a weak man.
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Thanks Avalon for your insight and taking the time for this.
Readers, be sure to check out Avalon’s blog: Strip and Grow Rich
{ 20 comments… read them below or add one }
Surprisingly informative interview from a stripper.
It was a lot better than I thought it would be. She was really quite point blank and honest with her answers which made them good. They mimicked my perceptions almost entirely.
I think most guys who try to pickup a stripper don’t care if she is a “ditzy subsistence stripper” or a “cool super stripper”. It is like being offered to drive a dented ’87 Porsche or a sparkling new 2009, they just want to drive a Porsche to say they have driven a Porsche.
Her answer to meeting her husband wasn’t all that informative. Was he the only guy she danced for that she knew she wanted to meet again in a personal level? What REALLY made her husband stand out? Was it body language? Looks? What he said or how he said it? I think there was more than just having dogs and a Springsteen ticket.
Interesting interview!! I agree she was really straight forward!
Mack,
No, I danced for lots of other guys that night. In fact, back in my newbie stripper days I made the poor mistake of trolling dating sites for customers. The night I met my husband, I had thought I lined up a VIP with the guy I met on love@AOL. It was a mess! The Internet guy didn’t spend much money, since he thought he was just “stopping in at my work” to meet me. So he got all bent outta shape when I didn’t pay much attention to him and started giving dances to other patrons (including my now husband).
Really, nothing that would be in your PUA handbook made my husband stand out. We just had a connection. That was my point. Men are clueless to chemistry because they can ahem…rise to any occasion with an attractive woman. Women are pickier. Despite all the PUA tricks up your sleeve, a girl knows within 15 seconds if you are a yes or no. I saw him toasting with his three bosses, and knew instantly he was a yes. I can the same thing with strip club patrons….I know within 15 seconds I’m going to close a VIP sale or if he is a time-wasting PUA. No offense intended, but I have a different agenda and time is money.
It is my humble opinion, that the only reason PUA closing strategies work is because the girl already decided you were a yes. Body language, eye contact, proximity/personal space….all of those things can only work in your favor if the girl gives you permission to use them on her. You can’t use ‘em if she’s across the room talking to someone else she decided was a yes!
Interesting read. Thanks Savage.
Hey dude,
Well something that i heard recently is that if you go to a strip club, don’t hit on the stripper, hit on the waitress’s that serve you drinks.
Coz they are used to not getting any attention and will generally be much more open than the strippers.
Theres a thought and it makes sense too
Great post by the way =)
Hot Alpha Female
Latest Post — Talk is cheap and so are you
http://www.hotalphafemale.blogspot.com
“Confidence is the key. Confidence is the single trait women desire in a man. Lack of confidence is a sign of weakness, and no woman wants a weak man.”
That’s exactly what Pick Up teaches. Success breeds confidence, and vice versa. It teaches you how to appear confident and eventually become confident.
” I saw him toasting with his three bosses, and knew instantly he was a yes”
That’s just a type of DHV- a PUA “trick”. You can manufacture a similiar scenario and women will assume you have high value.
“Body language, eye contact, proximity/personal space….all of those things can only work in your favor if the girl gives you permission to use them on her.”
I disagree. A woman can be won over after a little time using attraction material. If you are persistent, are able to flip her attraction switches, and don’t bail on her too early, she can become attracted. Most women aren’t looking to get money from people they just met. So they do have a little more time to invest.
“You can’t use ‘em if she’s across the room talking to someone else she decided was a yes!”
Sure you can- it’s called AMOGing. It’s a way to make the other guy look awkward or weak, as you appear more attractive to her.
I think women have “instant attraction” circuits, but most also have some other attraction circuits that take a little time to find out about. A guy can be super hot, confident, cool, and attractive as hell for the “first fifteen minutes,” but have a “deal-breaker trait that takes a while to see. I think a lot of people are looking for a real connection and aren’t really sure if the person is who they appear to be at first. A “no” can become a “yes” and vice-versa.
Great comments Avalon. Congrats on the Hubby!
Interesting but her sentiments weren’t all that different from what I’ve heard from most women about seduction in general. Again, cool stuff but I think I’ll stick to my rule of not listening to women to learn pickup. No offense.
Imagine hit the nail on the head: seduction teaches confidence, and confidence is what we find attractive. In moderation of course, over-confident asshats are a deal breaker.
Hey There this is Single… I had a mini Google party and you were linked in there!!!!
There’s a TON of social conditioning of what she is saying. And as the old saying goes, that’s not what she says, but what she doest that matters.
HAHAHAHAHAHA
She liked her husband because he had Springsteen tickets and two dogs! Come on! hahahaha Now every guy who has Springsteen tickets and two dogs will win her over? NOT.
She is just rationalizing her attraction.
striptease is business like any other dance shows art to capture attention and get them to look and see them stemming sexuell and a pleasant evening, eye contact, small contact, etc..
Good article, and even
I didn’t know about 12 inch rule being applied in strippers. Hahaha! I guess I’m just too naive for things like these.
I think we’ve all known for a long time that if you ask a woman “Hey, will this or that pickup tactic work on you/other women?” they’ll say no, and then you try said tactic, and it works. Whether they’re deliberately lying or they believe their delusions, anyone who’s tried this stuff, rather than just asking a woman about it, knows that your behaviour makes all the difference.
Also, coulda picked a hotter stripper.
I mean it’s not that she isn’t attractive at all, but would anyone interview a bodybuilder with an only moderately-above-average physique? Just sayin.
It’s because all women are not the same,we all don’t want the same.So if one chick tells you ways to pick up girls and it doesn’t work,that just means it was only what SHE liked.
Hate to break it to you guys,but we are individuals.And I personally like shy guys who are not loud and aggressive.
I would like to give Betty a resounding “Hell yeah!” on this post. I hear a lot of dismissal of “what women think they want” in the pick up community – and as Avalon insightfully noted, women are quite intuitive. Don’t you think we can read your underlying disdain? Do you think that’s a turn-on?
On the same token: Pick-up tactics work in the short term, yes – but only because they simulate confidence and project the image of “high value”. Pick-up techniques can result in a great one-night stand (although I believe more often it’s a simple make-out session in the club)…but only true confidence and high value result in a husband.
Oh, and Bob? Please show us your winning mug by getting a Gravatar. I’m sure Matt could have picked a hotter commenter too. (By the way, reducing women to a number on a 1-10 scale isn’t a really big turn-on either.) I was extremely impressed by Avalon’s insight throughout the interview – and yet the point that interested you most was the 200-pixel picture of her in the top left corner. Maybe that’s because what she said isn’t what you wanted to hear…so you focused on what’s easiest for so many men and what’s offensive about PU to so many women – judging us solely based upon our looks (when the guys who are into PU are rarely Abercrombie model material themselves).
Is a pretty decent post this, but don’t say men can’t have inituition! Sure, women have scienficially better circuitry in the brain to read body language (ref. The Definitive Book of Body Language), but this doesn’t mean men can’t train it!
We all know: those who say “this would never work on me” are the first to fall. “Intuition is a gift that men will never have or understand.” Is that a quote from a Most Obvious Stripper’s Beliefs for Exploitaition textbook? All she’s doing is trying to play the questions like a regular PUA would. I hate strip clubs and just gamed in them a couple of times because my friends really wanted to throw tons of money away having some fun there. And gaming there confirmed what I always thought: strippers are SO easy… damn. They’re so used to men with less than zero game who lavish them on their looks that you starve their egos when you actually screen her for anything more than appearances. They try so hard.
Btw, what PUA here wants to marry? I can hear them all shouting “me!, me!”.
About the interview, she’s full of bullshit. Still, interesting bullshit. So much rationalization, so little true understanding. I’m not into married women, but if I’d pick her up I’d nickname her Tisbea.
I think she made a couple of good points.
1. Women are all different. I have tried every “game” in the book on certain women with ease and confidence and they just don’t cut it. Other women you don’t really even have to try. While I would agree that the attraction switch can be turned from “on” to “off” and vice versa, there are times when you just can’t get what you want. I personally been asked by girls to text other guys they were seeing that they weren’t interested in them anymore – these guys made more money, seemed more attractive, greater DHV, etc. Or so it seemed. The girl just liked me better at the time.
2. The problem with most (not all) pua tactics is that they focus on picking up girls in one primary location: the night scene. In other words, picking up girls who are already in an attraction sort of mood whether they admit it or not. So while certainly high caliber intelligent beauties may go to a club or bar from time to time, the general populous at such locations is going to be easier to get than say the highly motivated HB in med school who doesn’t have time/enjoy such frivolities. I would like to see a MPUA pick up a religious girl on a Christian University campus and hook up with her.
3. Finally, I agree with a number of the comments here. What she said about her attraction to her hubs is BS. But honestly we often can’t put a finger on attraction. Turning it into a science puts us at risk for becoming robots. I like that natural unscripted approach that seems to be growing in some pua circles. This seems to take into account the fact that we often can’t describe why one girl is still on our mind a year later and another (who perhaps had more outward qualifying factors) is easily forgotten. Humans are dynamic.